OCIO: Aradhana Kejriwal on Markets

Aradhana Kejriwal shares insights on her work as an Outsourced Chief Investment Officer (OCIO) and discusses how women are reshaping the investment landscape with their growing control of wealth and unique perspectives on risk.

• OCIOs function as dedicated investment departments for advisory firms, providing sophisticated research and investment management while allowing advisors to focus on client relationships
• AI serves as a companion in finance, making processes more efficient without replacing human judgment and relationship management
• The value of customization in investment services—creating tailored solutions rather than cookie-cutter approaches
• Women will control $34 trillion (38%) of US investable assets, making women-focused investment strategies increasingly important
• Women tend to be "risk aware" rather than simply conservative investors, bringing valuable perspectives to investment committees
• Financial literacy initiatives are crucial for empowering women as investors
• Advice for young women in finance: recognize that skills managing household finances translate directly to professional investing

Check out our financial literacy foundation and join our weekly episodes as we continue delivering current and relevant ideas to help you reach your financial wellness and improve your investing IQ.

Straight Talk for All - Nonsense for None

Please check out our other podcasts:

https://skepticsguidetoinvesting.buzzsprout.com

Disclaimer - These podcasts are not intended as investment advice. Individuals please consult your own investment, tax and legal advisors. They provide these insights for educational purposes only.

Chapters

• 0:50 Welcome to Skeptic's Guide to Investing
• 2:41 OCIO: Enhancing Advisory Firms
• 9:04 AI as Companion, Not Threat
• 14:44 Customization: The PIC Advantage
• 23:00 Women's Growing Control of Wealth
• 31:20 Personal Investment Journey
• 39:02 Empowering Women in Finance

Transcript

Steve Davenport: 0:26

Hello everyone and welcome to Skeptic's Guide to Investing. Today I'm here without Clem. He's wandering around Japan somewhere eating lots of sushi and I'm here with my friend, Aradhana Kejriwal. Aradhana and I were members of the CFA Society Atlanta and we're both former presidents. She was with me when I was president and she was part of my team and we've had a great professional relationship for the last 10 plus years.

Steve Davenport: 0:57

And when I think about woman in finance, I think about Aradhana and how she brings it to every event or everything she does for her clients. I think about that passion and I think about how much we can make a difference when we care about our clients. So I'd like to talk to her about there about some of the things she's doing. I think that her career and her lessons about how she's facing the investment world could be very good information for a woman who's thinking about a career or just somebody who wants to understand how women have succeeded in this business previously. So, Aradhana, welcome and I'm so glad to have you on and talking with us and I guess I'd like to say how do you feel about today and the markets? And we're called Skeptic's Guide because we're a little bit skeptical. Sometimes Are you skeptical, not?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 2:00

Well, thank you, Steve, for having me on your podcast. I truly appreciate it and I truly treasure and value our friendship, so I'm really excited to be here. Am I a skeptic or not? I think just the nature of what we do for a living CVU and I, it just naturally makes us a skeptic.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 2:24

We are living in very interesting times and there's no doubt about that. There's no shortage of news and yet, you see, the markets keep going up. Cautious, diversified investor uh, yes, I, I do look at the frothiness in the market and I'm concerned, so that's the reason my clients are invested in high quality, cautious, very diversified portfolio, because the world that we're living in you just don't know what's that one catalyst that will, uh, that'll, pop the bubble that we're in? But it's actually quite welcoming to see this year the markets rally quite broadening away from what we saw in 2023 and 2024. Yet we still are in a very concentrated market, but it's at least a relief to see the international markets doing well and sort of broadening. But, yes, skeptic indeed, and skeptic on everything that's happening around us.

Steve Davenport: 3:37

Can you help our listeners understand this term OCIO, Outsourced Chief Investment Officer ? My partner works doing that at Circa. But can you tell me, and tell our listeners, a little bit about what is an OCIO and how do the how does it make a difference for a small firm that might be trying to do too many things. You can come in and help them with one of the main parts of their their RIA business?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 4:14

So, as you mentioned, OCIO outsourced chief investment officer, um, so, um, I run an OCIO firm and so one should think about an OCIO firm as a dedicated investment department is tailored to the advisory firm's clients. The investment philosophy would be aligned and it would be aligned and also be aligned with your planning process. An OCIO firm would do the manager due diligence. So that would basically dig deeper than the basics and do very thorough due diligence so that it helps you avoid surprises and you're just not relying on some star ratings to find a manager. You're actually doing the in-depth due diligence. You're doing ongoing market analysis, so the strategies that the advisory firm is offering stays relevant. And, of course, as an OCIO firm, there's support for other investment-related activities or needs. Like you know, there are any client questions. There are prospect reviews, there's trading rebalancing questions, looking at rebalancing softwares, things like that.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 5:44

So the point is not to take over the advisory firm's client relationships. It's basically to over the advisory firm's client relationships. It's basically to give the advisory firm and the advisors the freedom to focus on the clients. So instead of dividing for an advisory firm, instead of them dividing their time between client meetings and then coming back to investment modeling, you're sort of staying in the lane of being the relationship manager with your end clients, knowing that the investment side is handled. So that's typically the role of an OCIO and I think the biggest differentiator by having an OCIO in this very crowded advisory marketplace is that you can offer the same depth and sophistication as a larger firm without really sacrificing a boutique feel.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 6:41

You have a CFA on staff without paying the big dollars and you're you get the same level uh of sophistication. Uh, you're walking into client, like the advisor can walk into a client meeting, knowing that you have very current, very well-researched answers uh to questions on the market, environment, the risk, the opportunities. So you're, you're, uh, essentially more focused. The advisor is more focused on the quality of the relationships with their end clients and not have to worry about the investment piece. So I think that's really where the differentiator comes from for the advisory firm, because the quality that they're offering to their clients just jumps to a whole different level.

Steve Davenport: 7:29

Yeah, it sounds like it's more about enhancing and augmenting than it is about replacing, because I think specialization, especially in our industry, is important and you can try to be all things to all people, but it ends up that somebody has to suffer and I think that people who start out as planners or accountants that's really where their heart is in a lot of cases.

Steve Davenport: 7:55

So, the other part about trading and making some of these choices, I think it's a great way for a firm to look and feel bigger and focus their energies on the things that really bring them more joy. Feel bigger and focus their energies on the things that really bring them more joy. I think this whole space is getting very, very complicated because, I mean, I don't know about you, but I feel like the RIA industry and AI are going to go through a very big transition. Do you have any early feelings about AI and the advisor, or do you find it's way too early to get into that kind of thinking and that we're being fearful about something we don't really know?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 8:40

No, I think AI is very relevant to our practice and it is one that we all should be adapting. I don't see it as a threat. I see it as a companion because it makes you more efficient, right? So you talk about things like investment, committee minutes, note-taking right Now you get like minutes within right after the meeting. The minutes are produced with the things to do, and all of that because there's so many good apps out there that can help you. Ai can help you do a lot of things that can help you make you more efficient. So I think I see that as a companion.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 9:30

Can AI really replace what our end advisors are doing for their clients? I don't believe so. You cannot replace a human being's instinct in managing a client relationship. I cannot see AI sort of taking that over, because, as advisors in our business, you know the advisors have a close relationships with their end clients. You can't have a machine talking to the end client, so I cannot see AI sort of taking over that element.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 10:05

And we've read so many things on the behavioral side that AI is sending some wrong prompts, which is causing people to take some extreme steps, is a great companion and making business practices more efficient, more effective. You know managing time in a much better way so that you can focus on things that are more important, like managing client relationships. So I feel that there is a place in business. And then, of course, if you kind of pivot to the, the trading element or the technology element, ai is just helping so much in developing presentations, things that would take you much longer, or, you know, just sort of summarizing big white papers that are out there. I mean, there's so much of benefit from AI. So I think it's sort of looking at the glass half full, half empty, and I tend to look at the half full.

Steve Davenport: 11:15

Yeah, I mean even two old guys like me and Clem. I mean, when we started this podcast, they asked us if we wanted an AI transcript from the call, and I'm like what? And then I looked at how it recorded the voices, interpreted the tone of one voice versus another, to know that the person has changed. Like it's not perfect, believe me, it still gets a little confused about capitalizing. I still don't know why it doesn't capitalize, certain words and doesn't do certain things, but it really is an amazing feature when you can take an hour-long podcast and transcribe all of the conversations and attribute them, mostly correctly, to the different people. I mean, I think for people who can't listen to the podcast and want to read it, it's a tremendous asset to be able to do some of these things. And I think of it as only going to help us.

Steve Davenport: 12:19

And I don't think, population-wise, there's going to be enough advisors for people.

Steve Davenport: 12:25

So I think we're going to see a shortage because there's quite a few advisors in that 65 and up range who are looking to sell their practices. And if they sell their practices to someone else, well, now that practice has twice as many people and twice as many clients and they're going to have to get more efficient. It's not like I don't think that we're running out of people and AI is going to eat everyone's lunch. I have a feeling that people who do it well will be able to communicate better, will be able to send out. You know, I can ask AI to write one of our blogs and say, hey, talk about this concept and talk about and you, you know you can develop some pretty good materials. I don't think that they're as good as the human writer and my partner and I argue about. You know whether I could replace him with a chat gpt, but we, uh, you know it comes down to having the right perspective and having experience and I believe people who make a difference and make clients feel at home and make clients feel confident.

Steve Davenport: 13:55

It's it's not going to happen from a bot, so um, so I think that's very interesting. What are the main things that you think about in terms of your advantage as an OCIO? What's your special sauce?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 14:13

Yeah.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 14:14

So the differentiator between me and any of the larger TAMs or OCIO firms out there is the customization that PIC offers to its clients. So it's not just cookie cutter solutions being delivered, it's deliberate, customized solutions, deliverables with the same depth and sophistication that you would get from a larger firm, but without sacrificing the advisory firm's boutique feel. So I think that is the biggest thing that PIC offers and that's what I believe why clients choose PIC? Because they've sort of feel that the investment department you know the investment department is sitting inside their office and not sitting outside and and and so I think that's, um, that's the biggest feel.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 15:16

And, of course, you know, because, uh, because uh, pic is a much uh sort of smaller, uh, more niche in in a more niche phase. You know the follow-ups are more quick and they're more thoughtful. And you know my advisory clients are not feeling that they're just, you know, getting a 50,000 foot view answer. They're getting a very thoughtful answer that is catered to their end clients. So I think that's what makes the biggest difference between hiring a boutique firm and hiring one of the large OCIOs.

Steve Davenport: 15:53

No, I think that your perspective with regard to clients and the behavioral aspects and your experience at Joyn and some of your other experiences in your career have put you in a unique position to give a good perspective. I'd also say that your commitment to the community and to women and to people coming on board that you help in India is an inspiration to a lot of people. I have to say, the way that we've tried to shape how CFAs are perceived in the community and how we can be offsetting to some of the negativity around finance and investments.

Steve Davenport: 16:43

I think is the future, and I think advisors need to think about their community just as much as they think about their clients, because I think that one helps the other right. If you help an advisory firm become a little more rounded and show some of the personalities of the firm and how they're committed to this cause because of a parent or this cause because of a child, it shows us as not just numbers machines that crank out an answer. When they say, what's my risk, we tell them you know it's the 14.4. I think we say, well, there's many ways to measure risk and we want to do it in a way that means the most to you, and I think that your process of doing that, has got to make every firm you touch better right.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 17:39

Yes, thank you. If you think about the CFA charter and what that has taught us, you know, definitely we have that strong technical foundation right. That's what, when we talk about risk, like you said, we're not just looking at risk just from a performance standpoint, but looking at risk from 50 different ways to look at risk. Was it fees? Is it liquidity? Is it concentration, whatever it is right? Risk Was it fees? Is it liquidity, is it concentration, whatever it is right? So we're looking.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 18:08

So the charter has given us that very, very strong foundation and a deep knowledge from an investment standpoint. And you know, and the ethics, the ethical training that you and I have gone through and everybody else who has a CFA charter has gone through. So I think all of that is extremely important, as you and I have built our careers and have built our individual practices to establish credibility right. So I think that's one of the biggest skill sets that we've gotten from the charter and the program, that we've stayed curious. We apply these skills in real-world scenarios. We are, you know, in whatever, and that's sort of what we're delivering to our clients. You know the trust, the credibility and the technical skills and, of course, you know you talked about the behavioral part of it and we focus on that as well.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 19:07

You know you look at the charter now it's sort of morphing more to adapt to the AI environment. So I think there are a lot of lot of good things that we as CFA charter holders bring to our careers and be built over time, along with, of course, the experience. You know you worked at various banks, I worked at various banks. You know you worked at various banks, I worked at various banks. You know we both have worked in advisory practices. So you know, of course experience is there. And then so you add the CFA charter and the experience together and that's, I think, what we're delivering and making it more making our clients feel that you know, when they're hiring us, they can trust that we'll deliver with full integrity.

Steve Davenport: 19:54

Yes, I think it's one thing to have a person who's completely technically sound and I think the CFA does a good job of giving you the broad base of knowledge to help do that but I think ultimately it's about the relationship stupid. You know what I mean. It's kind of like you can have all the knowledge but if it's not communicated and it's not organized and it's not meant to satisfy the client need, it's just noise, absolutely client need, it's just noise.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 20:25

Absolutely, absolutely.

Steve Davenport: 20:26

I like to think that we want less noise in our life and we want simplicity and we want balance and those things come from somebody who's thoughtful, developing a solution that is customized and boutique. And I know that everybody would like to say just 80% S&P index and 20% the ag and go to sleep for 20 years, and there are some advisors doing that. But I think the advisors who are really making an impact with clients are thinking about timing, thinking about college, thinking about their children, how they save for college and how they get through some of the financial hurdles in life. That's what makes people sleep better at night is knowing that they're and I love the fact that there's so many good statistics about and people who have an advisor are much less likely to make a mistake and they're much more likely to feel confident about their finances because they're just.

Steve Davenport: 21:27

You know it's hard if you're an individual today and both of you are working and you've got three kids and there's just a lot going on with soccer and you know volleyball and all the uh challenges of life and I I just think that you're. You know you're not trying to do your own dental work. You're not trying to do your own. You know heart surgery, you give it up to a specialist, and I think the same is true about your money, and so I think it's really important to find an erodner or someone at a firm who can, you know, help make your financial journey a little less cumbersome. Um, I know you spend a lot of time with dei and personally you're involved in helping a lot of women. Um, can you kind of give me a? You know what's the status 2025? Dei in finance, dei in society? Like, how are you feeling? Are you feeling discouraged by the current administration? Are you feeling like it's like the world has kind of gone in the opposite direction to make progress? What are you feeling?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 22:44

So I will say, as a true CFA charterholder, I focus on data versus on everything that's happening from a noise standpoint, if I may say so, with the current administration. So if you look at data right and just demographics, women will control a much larger share of wealth and investable assets than there's ever been, right? So US women? So there's that McKinsey study that said US women right now are controlling. Projections are that they will control about 34 trillion of investable assets. That's about 38% of the US assets. That is out there, right? So if women control more assets, then their investment preferences, their risk tolerance, their goals matter more. Right? So firms should be tuned to the needs of women. So better advisory approaches, better tailored wealth and behavioral and investment services really, really matter. So if that is the case, then as female controlled wealth grows, you need to have that pipeline of having more women advisors or having more women in the investment field. It becomes even more and more necessary. So what has worked is probably not going to work in the future, because women are going to be in control of more money, so they're going to be in control of more money. You cannot just ignore them. You have to develop that pipeline, right? So you have to have more regulatory, more industry pressures to to bridge that gender gap that we see right now.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 24:39

I think there should be more thoughtful leadership. There should be more transparent hiring decisions, more education in the schools. You know, you and I have been very, very passionately involved also in financial literacy and going and talking in schools and, of course, DEI efforts. And that's not to say that I don't believe in merit-based hiring. I of don't believe in merit-based hiring. I of course believe in merit-based hiring. But at the same time I believe that when you're doing merit-based hiring, there should be that equal opportunity given to women. And if you just follow the simple principle of follow the money and if the projections from a demographic standpoint say more money with women, then you need to be focused more on women now so that 10, 20, 15 years from now, when we get to that point, we're not scrambling.

Steve Davenport: 25:36

Right, I think it's very important.

Steve Davenport: 25:39

I mean, I mean you're preaching to the converted. I believe the woman and their natural you know, their natural ability to nurture and to support and to educate make them the ideal advisor. And what I found most compelling was when I started talking about financial literacy 10 years ago and creating the foundation and I said you know, I don't know who's going to come out, I don't know who's going to answer the call, I don't know who's going to give us money, I don't know what this is going to be. I'm just going to go ahead and do it and see what happens and see how much impact we can have. And 80% of our volunteers for the foundation were one, and so the CFA society has 20% women and 80% men. So you can see there's something different there. And what my belief is and I think it's coming true is we have a resource here that is designed to make people feel comfortable and make people feel more in touch with their money and make people feel more in touch with their money. And what we've done is, by creating a harsher and more competitive and more high-paced financial industry, we've alienated half of the population that we should have engaged with us in this effort, and I believe that we're going to see more and more women and more and more women are going to emphasize the need for financial literacy.

Steve Davenport: 27:12

And I was just really glad I had Gene Natale on from Troutwood at the Pittsburgh CFA and you know he's saying that 60 percent of students in the United States now have a high school requirement for financial literacy. I remember 10 years ago that was like 10. So I think we're moving in the right direction and a lot of it has to do with women and their desire to make things better for those who come after them. So I guess I'd like to kind of go towards your money story, because we like to talk about if Aradna was getting out of high school or in high school and trying to decide what you could do. So what would you do today, whether it might be different or the same as what you did? And tell me, is there somebody in your life that came along that said hey, look, aradhana, you're very good at this, this and this. I think you know you could. I want to help you to be the person you can be. Tell me the Aradhana story about money.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 28:23

Yeah, no, that's a great, great question, steve, and you know I would. I kind of would start with the financial literacy part of it, because I think the reason we're doing so much with the foundation and financial literacy is because generally women are less confident investors. That is changing and that's why education is very important and for us to go and empower and educate women from a high school level is extremely important. So the 60% data that you suggested is really a good one.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 28:59

So when I look back and I see you know what sort of made me go through my career. I started investing at a very, very young age and a lot of that came from my parents and my mom and just seeing her. So I definitely was raised by a very, very strong woman and even my dad, so very supportive, very strong woman and even my dad, so very supportive, very strong household, which sort of gave me the freedom to explore and do anything I wanted. So I wasn't sort of pigeonholed that you know I need to be an engineer or a doctor. I was given that freedom.

Steve Davenport: 29:44

Do you?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 29:44

have any brothers. My sister is an engineer and she's in computer science and she sort of followed the atypical route that you see in the asian community and she's she's done marvelous in her life as well. Um, as far as you know, when I chose to go the finance route, I just loved investing and this was in pre um um was. You know, I started managing money right before the tech bubble. You know the start of the tech bubble. So I kind of saw that whole the buildup of that bubble and that sort of that burst and it taught me so much about long-term investing.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 30:23

You know the sort of the greed, the greed and the fear that that rules investing and that makes people capitulate. So I learned those lessons very, very early on. I learned very early on also that that, as a woman, we tend to invest a little bit differently in the sense that we're more risk aware. I wouldn't say conservative as much, but more risk aware is the term I would use. So I think that really really helped shape how I manage money today with a very, very keen eye towards behavioral, towards being aware of human behavior, because no matter how sound you are, it's our emotions, it's our greed and fear that makes a difference, right?

Steve Davenport: 31:17

Right. You've got to recognize it in order to address it. Absolutely, I think that a lot of men just say I'm going to get to the answer, address it. I think that a lot of men just say I'm going to get to the answer, and I think that we need to kind of look at the process and try to make the process a little more flexible, instead of saying here's the answer.

Steve Davenport: 31:38

And I think that we're all starting.

Steve Davenport: 31:41

I think we learn from each other and I've learned a lot from the other officers at the CFA, like you and some of Kathy Christman and some of the other people that were just phenomenal at kind of bringing their own brand of investing, and I think that there is multi. You know there is no one way, there is no silver bullet, and I think that the realization and the comfort that you're going to have to you know, adjust and be flexible, um, I think, is a lot of men and I'm not going to, you know, qualify. Everyone has an idea of how you get to the end, and some it's much more of a cooperative journey and some people it's more of an individual journey, and I think that when we look at some of the great women investors, you can tell that they were very good at improving the board's overall rationale and how they looked at things, instead of just saying we're going to go with whoever shouts the loudest and whoever has the strongest opinions. I think that we all realize that balancing opinions and balancing ideas leads to better results.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 32:58

I couldn't agree more, and I think one of the biggest things that women bring to the table is and one of the lessons that I learned growing up is just being curious and asking questions, be curious and be humble. So, like you said, if you are humble and flexible and you're not the kinds who says I know what I'm doing and I know I'm doing it the right way and I'm not going to change it, that's where you lead to poor decision-making. And I think, as a woman and not to say that men don't do it, many men do it as well and that's where you lead to poor decision making. And I think, as a woman, um, and not to say that men don't do it, many men do it as well and that's what makes them great investors, you know. Challenge your own process, make it better, be humble, recognize that you're human and you're subject to the same emotions that someone else is. And we better we become, you know, even though technically we are.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 33:49

We have charters, so we're technically have more experience, but I think what makes us better investors is the fact that we recognize our, our constraints, and we try to develop processes that are more transparent and disciplined, to question ourselves and say, okay, what is the other sideline? So I think you know I'm actually quite encouraged by the fact that the data shows that. You know more wealth with women would, and typically money is what sort of takes everything, as you know, the change that that is that should be coming and will come eventually is going to come because you know women are going to own more wealth, but also folks like you and the Aspen Foundation, what you started, you know the pipelines we're building, all of that. You know grassroots endeavors like this is what makes the difference. You know Right.

Steve Davenport: 34:51

And that's what we're trying to do here with the podcast as well, is get people to listen, get people you know, and if a woman listens to this podcast and now feels more confident about addressing this, you know this career. You know this career. You know I don't know how many, how many women listeners we have. We have a lot of data on you know the people's URLs and which cities are downloading, but I think that you know. All I can say is it can put good things out into the universe. I think somebody receives them, and those who receive them usually will share with others, and that's what we do. So I guess receive them usually will share with others, and that's what we do. So I guess. Is there any last thoughts you have about women investing the the markets? How do you, how would you leave with a advice to a radna 2.0 who's 21 years old and has just graduated from college?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 35:45

So I'll say two things. One, if you're a Rana 2.0 woman, remember, most home budgets are managed by a woman. So there's no reason why, when a woman can manage her home budget so effectively, why a woman cannot manage money outside her home. There is absolutely no reason. So one is as competent, a woman is as competent. If she's competent inside the house, she's equally competent outside her house.

Steve Davenport: 36:18

So so don't say, say it loud, I have two daughters, so I've, I've, so I've learned this the hard way, right? I appreciate it.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 36:33

Yes, absolutely. So I really feel there's no reason to shy, and especially in our industry, which has a certain image. But I feel, as a woman, we bring a lot of good things to the industry. So I would love for our pipeline to be the reverse at some point, where we're not just 20% women and 80% men, you know, may there be a time where it's the other way, or at least a parody, because we know we can and and we should and we shouldn't shy this is not just we shouldn't shy behind the fact that it's just a man's world, it is, uh, a person's world which has both men and women. So I'd leave it, I'm excuse me, I'd leave the podcast with that thought that never second guess yourself.

Steve Davenport: 37:30

You know, I think that's great advice. I mean, I think that there's a lot of people who are fearful of what they don't know. In investing, I try to learn as much as I can about the things I'm planting, because if I want them to live and thrive, I got to go outside my regular circle. The first step and the first step is you know what I mean, try something. Try, try investing in in that index fund and that, and then say, okay, now I understand that I'm going to invest internationally. And and then say, okay, you know, I I really believe that India is an economy. I'm going to buy the Indian ETF. I mean, I'd love to hear your. Last thing I forgot to mention was the work you do with women quarterly on calls about careers and finance and stuff. Can you talk about that for a minute?

Aradhana Kejriwal: 38:41

Yes, yes, sure. So thank you for mentioning that. So I do quarterly calls in India with students in India that are thinking about the CFA program or are thinking about the MBA program and want to know why doing a CFA is better and how. You know how I've sort of gone through my career of going through working at different banks and sort of you know jumping very early on in my career to get as much experience as I could. So they, so I do a lot of calls with them, sort of talking about giving them career advice. You know, and this is like I said, be curious, be humble and be curious, be humble and always look to grow. And so I do. I do that. I typically get about 100, 150 students every quarter that are exploring careers and finance. So so it's great.

Steve Davenport: 39:44

I mean, that's 500 people who have had somebody reach back and try to lift them up.

Steve Davenport: 39:50

I mean it's inspiring what you're doing around, and I'd love to stay in touch and have you back here if you've enjoyed this as much as I have, because I think your perspective is refreshing and I think that we all have to figure out a way to touch someone, that we all have to figure out a way to touch someone, and I guess I'd end this podcast that way, in saying this is a great example of people having different views and different ways to attack their lives, and we'd love you to share this.

Steve Davenport: 40:21

We'd love you to talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors about some of the ideas we propose here on Skeptic's Guide, and we want to keep making everyone's lives better. So thank you everybody for listening and we appreciate your support and I hope you like the new format. We're going out weekly now instead of every two weeks, and I don't know if it makes a difference, but we're trying and we keep wanting to deliver ideas that are current and ideas that are relevant to help you reach your financial wellness and improve your investing IQ. All right, everybody, thanks.

Aradhana Kejriwal: 41:01

Thank you and congratulations on 100 episodes.