SKEPTIC’S GUIDE TO INVESTING
Straight Talk for All, Nonsense for None
About - Our podcast looks to help improve investing IQ. We share 15-30 minutes on finance, market and investment ideas. We bring experience and empathy to the complex process of financial wellness. Every journey is unique, so we look for ways our insights can help listeners. Also, we want to have fun😎
Your Hosts - Meet Steve Davenport, CFA and Clem Miller, CFA as they discus the latest in news, markets and investments. They each bring over 25 years in the investment industry to their discussions. Steve brings a domestic stock and quantitative emphasis, Clem has a more fundamental and international perspective. They hope to bring experience, honesty and humility to these podcasts. There are a lot of acronyms and financial terms which confuse more than they help. There are many entertainers versus analysts promoting get rich quick ideas. Let’s cut through the nonsense with straight talk!
Disclaimer - These podcasts are not intended as investment advice. Individuals please consult your own investment, tax and legal advisors. They provide these insights for educational purposes only.
SKEPTIC’S GUIDE TO INVESTING
Money Talks: Women and Wealth
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What if your investment dollars could create positive change while still generating competitive returns? In this eye-opening conversation, financial expert Mimi Locke joins hosts Steve Davenport and Glenn Miller to explore the world of values-aligned investing and women's financial empowerment.
Mimi shares her journey from being the lone woman in a room of 60 stockbrokers to co-leading courses for Invest for Better, a nonprofit helping women align their portfolios with their personal values. She dispels the persistent myth that investing according to your principles means sacrificing performance, explaining how even traditional energy companies are pivoting toward sustainable practices.
The conversation delves into the unique financial challenges women face—earning less, experiencing career interruptions for caregiving, and needing retirement funds to last through longer lifespans. When women step away from careers to care for family members, they don't just lose immediate income; they miss crucial years of retirement contributions and Social Security credits, creating compounding disadvantages that affect long-term security.
Each participant shares their personal "money story," revealing how childhood experiences shape our financial behaviors. Mimi describes growing up with a Depression-era father who emphasized saving "just in case," while the hosts reflect on their own financial journeys and how those experiences influenced their approaches to money management.
Whether you're interested in gender-lens investing, environmental impact, or simply aligning your portfolio with your values, this episode provides practical insights for making your money work harder—both for your future and for the causes you care about. As Mimi notes, the key is starting small: even modest investments in alignment with your values can create meaningful change.
Ready to take control of your financial future while supporting what matters most to you? Visit investforbetter.org to explore resources and courses designed to empower investors at every level of experience.
Straight Talk for All - Nonsense for None
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Disclaimer - These podcasts are not intended as investment advice. Individuals please consult your own investment, tax and legal advisors. They provide these insights for educational purposes only.
Hello everyone and welcome to Skeptic's Guide to Investing. I'm Steve Davenport and I'm here with my co-host, Clem Miller, and today we have a special guest, Mimi Locke. Mimi and I were working together at State Street Global Advisors in the private wealth and investment management and Mimi has extensive experience in investing management. And Mimi has extensive experience in investing and she's doing some interesting things with trying to help women in financial literacy. So, mimi, what are you presently up to in terms of things going on in the finance scene in Boston?
Mimi Locke:Well, currently I'm gearing up for a course that I'll be co-leading in September. It's with a nonprofit called Invest for Better, and Invest for Better furthers women's understanding of finances and investing their values. So it's helping women figure out how to invest what's important to them whether it's investing in women and girls or climate matters any areas that come under that and the course starts in September, and so I'm co-leading that with another fantastic woman, and that's what we're getting ready for now.
Steve Davenport:And that's what we're getting ready for now. So is this related to what State Street did with their ETF SHE S-H-E? Is it similar type of value?
Mimi Locke:SHE is a values aligned. It's a gender lens investing. It's a gender lens investing and it's an ETF that invests in stocks where the companies have women on their boards and women in their upper management ranks, and that is one of the many tenets of the values-aligned investing. And if people are inclined to invest their money that way, you know there's many ways you can invest your money in values-aligned investing, but a lot of women do prefer to invest in companies that are run or heavily influenced by women.
Steve Davenport:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great area to consider because there's been some research, hasn't there, Clem, about boards that have more women on them tend to have better returns. Have you seen that ?
Clem Miller:Yeah, I don't recall exactly who, but I remember reading some of that.
Steve Davenport:I think that they talked about the fact that women tend to be a little more balanced and not as emotionally high or low as the market moves, and they tend to be a little more consistent and disciplined. And that consistency and discipline on boards where you have nine men and one woman, whereas when you have six men and four women, you tend to have a more balanced or disciplined kind of decision making.
Clem Miller:Often when you look at big companies you know you sort of have women in little niches like human resources, or you just have like two or three roles that seem to be occupied by women and the rest are sort of men, white men.
Steve Davenport:I think it's an area that I'm glad State Street did that ETF but I think it's an area that we're talking about faith-based investing and principles, and I find that there's so many different ideas out there in invest. of how to invest. Our goal when we have these investments is to try to get people to be more disciplined, and if you can get clients to feel comfortable with the names and comfortable with the ideas, then they're less likely to sell at the bottom or, you know, buy more at the top. It creates a a little more foundation for your ideas. Do you want to tell us about your money story, Mimi?
Mimi Locke:Yes, I do. My money story growing up was that my dad was a Great Depression guy. He went through the Great Depression in the 30s as a very young adult and it was pretty tough. You know, unemployment was huge where he lived and he was newly married at the time. So that influenced him for the rest of his life really, and when he and my mom had kids and when I was growing up, all that trickled down to save, save, save, save your money, put it away.
Mimi Locke:You don't, just in case, have a huge savings and security and something to fall back on because of what he went through and something to fall back on because of what he went through. So in order to save money, you have to make money. In order to make money, you have to get a college education. So that also was a big, big deal. You have to go to college. That was non-negotiable. The whole end game was to save money, and so those conversations happened early and often at the dinner table, about money and about saving, with stories, and you know that's how I grew up and he was very encouraging about about going to college and saving money. But it definitely was something that I grew up with and in his whole life. He was very conservative with that, so from that I became very interested in the markets. He was investing in mutual funds at the time and then in college I majored in finance and then right out of college I became a stockbroker and then started working in investment management in Boston.
Steve Davenport:That's great. Clint, do you have any kind of memories of growing up and how your family valued money?
Clem Miller:I grew up in I guess what you would call a lower middle income family in Detroit, Michigan, actually inside Detroit, not in a suburb, but actually inside Detroit, albeit one block inside Detroit, right one block inside of 8 Mile Road from the famous movie you might recall that movie with Eminem, and we really didn't talk much about money. We had five kids I was the oldest of five kids, which kind of dilutes the available income when you have five kids.
Steve Davenport:Why did they waste money on all those other ones when they had you first?
Clem Miller:right, um, and, and you know there was money to go to, I mean education was important, right, uh, we had money to go to, uh, the local, uh, catholic elementary school. You know. Fortunately they had a plan where the more kids you had, the less you would pay for the incremental kids. So that worked out. And then went to the local Jesuit high school and sort of leveraged that local Jesuit high school to be able to get into Georgetown, my alma mater, which is a Jesuit university. And I still have a copy of a bill of my first bill from freshman year, of a bill of my first bill from freshman year, and, um, I remember the gross uh was 4,000 something and after various um, you know, scholarships and whatnot, uh, I remember it was $1,400. That's how much I had to pay for the first semester, which was, I mean, I guess it was a lot back then, but maybe it wasn't that much back then. I mean it was. I mean I guess it was a lot back then, but maybe it wasn't that much back then. I mean it was. Uh, universities were a lot cheaper back then. So I managed to do that, um, but I never really thought about money per se. I thought about jobs Okay, getting a job after school, switching jobs, switching jobs. It was only about, I would say, let's see, I got my CFA in 01. I think it was only around the late 1990s. I graduated in 83.
Clem Miller:It was only around the late 1990s that I started thinking about getting into investments. Before that, you know, I was all you know international trade, international finance, international, this and that and so I started thinking about getting into finance. Investment sounded kind of interesting and so I started going down that that road, got the CFA and um eventually switched over into the uh, investments world. I had been in the. I started off in the economic forecasting and then moved into um, international trade, finance, got into investing, and so, you know, that's when I started really thinking about money. And you know, did you know, had a number had?
Clem Miller:You know, I would say, money was not at the center of my life. Money was always something that was kind of peripheral and then became central as I got older. Not in the sense of, you know, I'm not an accumulative person, not in the sense of you know, I'm not an accumulative person. I am a person who likes to, you know, to generate experiences and I'll pay for experiences. I'll go on trips, you know, that kind of thing. That's what I like to do, and I like to have enough money to be able to do that, and I want to have enough money to be able to do that for the rest of my life, rest of my wife's life, yeah I mean, uh, I just remember my father used to like say that anywhere you know, you see america get in your car, and he used to love to take car vacations everywhere and we were like why?
Clem Miller:what about?
Steve Davenport:what about planes, or what about, or what about trains, or what about cruises?
Steve Davenport:I'll do that too Like oh no, the car I do that too, anywhere dear. And he was just. My father was a very strong-willed Irishman and I don't know if anybody's ever experienced that before, but they believe that they should say something once and you should say yes, and If you don't agree, you were a fool, and if you keep arguing and the voices get louder, you raise your status to a damn fool. And so I think that as we grow up, there were certain topics we didn't delve into. There were certain topics we didn't touch and I think that money, or how much we make or how much we have or how you know, those were never discussed and therefore there was never the discussion of how do you get to having this money.
Steve Davenport:The idea was get a job first, and once you get a job, then the the yelling was about saving, saving, saving for a house and then saving for children and then saving for your retirement and everything. It was very much a one-way conversation and I think that I don't know if your family, but there was always this question about well, you're going to have a family and you're going to do this and that, and I think it was a different time and I guess I'd ask me when you guys talked about money, was there any difference between you and your brothers, or did everybody get the same one version of Finance 101?
Mimi Locke:No, we all got it, we got it a lot, and he just really I think that was one of the main things that he really wanted to impart to his children, and it was across the board um, you know, boys and girls to to save money for in case something bad happened, such as what had happened to him.
Steve Davenport:So, yeah, yeah, my father tells a story about his family in 28 or so during the depression, going back to the bank with the keys to the house and saying, no, house is not worth what it was. And so they just gave the keys back to the bank and they started renting another house and eventually they bought that house. But my father was like, yeah, I had to move from this street to this street and the house we were at was closer to the you know, the field in Rosendale and it was just like it's like yeah, when we walked away from that house we were like, why are we doing, you know, and it was a traumatic thing, and my father was fortunate, his dad was a policeman and so policemen at the time had pretty steady pay and they didn't get as affected by things. So I find that when you talk about money, it helps to start with where's your beginning point? And then how did you grow or change as you grow up to try to get more improvement?
Steve Davenport:And then the big thing I find is why not tell other people how your story evolved so that they don't make all the mistakes that we made? Because I think it's nice hey, my kids can make mistakes and learn a lesson, but I would much rather not learn the lesson and just take the ideas. And you know there's going to be enough lessons taught in life. You know there's going to be enough lessons taught in life. I don't know if we need to encourage our kids to have more problems and therefore, oh, look at all those lessons we allowed our children to have. You know, I don't think that's the. To me, the purpose of education and knowledge is to prevent the negative and support the positive. Right, right, right.
Mimi Locke:And support the positive right.
Steve Davenport:Right, right. So what do you? What's the group that you're working on?
Mimi Locke:Invest4Better is the name of the charity. Yes, it's called invest4betterorg. It was started. It's a nonprofit. It was started a few years ago by by two women one on the East Coast, one on the West Coast who wanted, who were presently in, wanting to have their money invested in ways that would benefit people or things that they cared about. People are things that they cared about and and they both I believe both of them had trouble finding help are called circles, so it's a small group of women.
Mimi Locke:I'm co-leading a circle starting soon and it's where women come together in a very safe space and talk about money, talk about, just like you said, their money stories. And then we go and they come from different backgrounds. Some of them have no investment experience. Some of them have much more investment experience and talk about the different ways that they can invest in public equities, in debt, private investing and even how to invest their, put their cash in banks that benefit, say, women-owned businesses and communities that they care about. So that's, and also there's, lastly, there's discussion on how to find a financial advisor. If you think you need one, some people do it it yourself, but how to find a financial advisor that gets it that's nice, I mean.
Steve Davenport:I think, um, in the experience I've had, women have a lot of challenges with their investing life. When it comes right down to it, you know not, uh, making 80 cents or 82 cents on the dollar versus men is one drawback they need to overcome. Second, their careers are usually interrupted because of their parents taking care of their parents or taking care of their children. And third, they have a longer lifespan. So if they're going to live longer, their retirement is going to be longer and therefore their need for retirement assets is longer. But also the last one, this idea of investing for values. I mean women tend to be more conservative and have more of a cash reserve because they're just, you know, they want to be sure, and that lower allocation to equities and higher to cash and bonds tends to make their returns a little bit. You know. Are these strategies, you think, giving you the same amount of return while giving you that values-based kind of benefit?
Mimi Locke:Yes, yes, there have equities that have the values, alignment, have the same return. I think that's a myth out there that you're giving up 1% or 2% in order to do good things. A lot of the companies you can even look at oil and gas companies they are shifting over a lot of their revenue base to solar and wind. They're some of the biggest solar and wind producers in the United States. They're still oil and gas companies, but you know they're definitely changing over. And the thing what you just said about women interrupting their careers, either for kids, it's also for taking care of elderly parents.
Mimi Locke:It's often the woman in the household that will interrupt her career to take care of sick parents and then when she eventually returns to work, you don't always step back into where you left off. It's not that easy. You may have a big gap and then not go back where you left off. So you've missed out on the earnings, you've missed out on saving for retirement through 401k plan and you also weren't contributing to your social security either. And that's all going to come back to haunt you. You know, in your retirement years, when you have less money and, like you said, women are living longer than their spouses and they're making less and therefore saving less and investing less. And on the risk averse front, I completely agree with you. I think women have a tendency to invest more in CDs because it's safe, it's FDIC insured, it's easy to understand and it's, you know, six months, 12 months, 18 months investment, and so there's certainly a degree of liquidity there as well. And they're going to miss out on the greater long-term returns, the historical returns of the stock market.
Steve Davenport:No, I think that's definitely true. I guess, how did you become involved in this values-based investing? How?
Mimi Locke:did you become involved in this values-based investing? Well, I mean, I started hearing. I mean, sri is the old negative screening where you don't buy stocks that do bad things. Like you know, the classic one back in the 70s would be like tobacco and weapons, that type of thing. You wouldn't buy those stocks if you didn't agree with those things. And then, as time went by, it started evolving into more sophisticated analysis within the investment management space. Within the investment management space, and at the same time, I had been doing a lot of traveling and seeing parts of the world that were affected by development and private interests, and you know huge swaths of land being cut down for either agriculture or logging or mining and affecting the land and the habitat, and you know. So that really bothered me. So the thing that, in terms of values aligned investing that I care about most is conservation or investing for climate. So there's, you know, huge parts of the world that have been wrecked because of these private interests.
Clem Miller:The other thing.
Mimi Locke:what go ahead Clem?
Clem Miller:No, go on.
Mimi Locke:Sorry to interrupt the other the other thing and this is like just a quick side note, the other thing that one can do if you're concerned about any of these matters, whether it's climate or women or whatever is to you know vote or support legislative matters that affect these things. That's just another way you can help effect change, not just with investing, but with legislative efforts.
Clem Miller:So, mimi, you mentioned travel as being one of the reasons you got into this. You mentioned travel as being one of the reasons you got into this. Are there other things that you've experienced besides the travel that have led you into this area? That would be my first question, and my second question would be you know, it sounds like you're more into the kind of impact investing area rather than sort of ESG. You know, I know there's a fine difference between the two, but you know, impact trying to make the world a better place as opposed to not trying to do harm which is sort of the ESG mantra.
Mimi Locke:Right? Am I right about that? Well, the first question about how did I get in? Interested in this?
Mimi Locke:Besides the the global Travel that it has, I have noticed and always been aware of and of the fact that women are not nearly as involved with money as men were, and I've worked in the financial services business my whole life, so I've seen that. You know, I was like my first job, I was like the only woman in a room of 60 stock brokers, and so I've always seen that and I've seen it within clients, I've seen it in employment settings, I've seen it in families, friends, everywhere. So I have felt that there's a lack of, it's just a societal norm that women aren't that well-educated or attuned to money matters. For some reason they've been left out of the conversation. So that part is another area that I'm interested in. And then on the impact in investing yes, if you're referring to like private investing, that's getting more and more mainstream now, as you know it's it's you know, being you know. I guess we're going to be able to do that in 401ks now too.
Clem Miller:I was really talking about social impact investing.
Mimi Locke:Oh, social impact.
Clem Miller:You mean, like women, Well, women and investing in clean water, investing in renewable energy I mean, you mentioned the things that you've seen on your travels. I mean, are you focused in your investing also not just on women, but also on these, you know, clean water and renewable energy and those kinds of things?
Mimi Locke:Yes, I look at companies that are that are doing that. In fact there's some utility companies that are, you know, all about clean energy and those things are fairly easy to find on, you know, like just in the press and with resources like Morningstar and some other ways that you can find out about those companies that are doing that.
Clem Miller:Yeah, so let me ask you another question. Back to women. So let me ask you another question back to back to women. I guess my observation, not being a woman, of course. So, looking from the outside, my observation is that there's kind of a generational gap, that women in their, you know, forties, thirties uh are much more attuned to investments and finance than uh and are certainly more career oriented uh than those in older generations. Uh, I don't know enough about millennials to be able to say the same thing. Uh, I don't know if there's been a regression or it's about the same thing as the 30s and 40s year olds. What's your observation? How have the generations moved?
Mimi Locke:on this issue. I think that the different generations I think there are women that are in an older generation that are interested in money and that do get it and know what's going on and they do have good solid questions for their financial advisors and they read and they investors, investors. So I don't really think it's just the younger, you know 40 on down, that are more, that are necessarily more into it. I think it's. I just think it's an individual thing where maybe how they grew up or whatever, I do see a lot of younger women that aren't worried about it at all, they're not worried about saving or, you know, we'll just get figured out is seemingly there's a real comfort level there you mean in their 20s probably yeah yeah, men too yeah, I suppose they're spending money and you know enjoying, you know their income, I guess, enjoying you know their income, I guess.
Clem Miller:Yeah, I guess they figure that their income will rise to meet their spending. You know one of the things? I'll just tell a very quick, very quick story. One of the things that I found that was a major help to society and to myself was the development of the debit card, I think before that, credit cards. People used credit cards for their convenience, but they often made your debt go out of control. It was easy for it to get out of control, and so the invention of the debit card allowed people to manage their money better. So that's just an aside.
Mimi Locke:Oh, I completely agree with you. Yeah, the money comes out of your account instantly, so you better make sure that it's there.
Clem Miller:Yeah, powerful discipline.
Mimi Locke:Yes, yes.
Steve Davenport:Do you think, mimi, after you do these classes with these people, that they were able to take the step forward and really start? Yes, yes, have a certain impact, and I guess I wonder whether it's women or whether it's men or whether it's anyone. I find that society has such a small attention span now that you know it's like squirrel, and I just think that you know, I hope that people can focus on the important things, which I think this is one of the important things of your life that you get responsibility and you understand. You know when you need to. You know not consume and how you need to discipline your life so that you can have some future. You know possibilities. Do you find that people are receptive and open to the discussion, or how do you make the discussion one better so that it is more open and likely to succeed?
Mimi Locke:Well, in the course that I'll be co-leading, it's called Invest with Purpose.
Mimi Locke:One of the goals is that by the end of the course or shortly thereafter, the women that are in the course will have made a change or made an investment that aligns with their values. Now you don't have to like sell everything and buy all you know environmentally friendly stocks or something like that. It's just, you know. We tell people just start out small, just you know, with a very small amount of money, and do something toward your goal. You know, even if it's just a few thousand dollars or a few hundred dollars, and do something. Invest it in a stock or in a bank. That's more community aligned to help people that need help starting their businesses in certain disadvantaged areas. So just starting out small. So that's one of the goals. Of course, people don't have to do that, but it's one of the goals that people I believe it's 90 something percent of the participants in the class do say that by the end of the course they will have made a new investment in something that matters to them.
Steve Davenport:That's pretty good. I mean, I think you get 90 percent of people to agree on anything. I think you get 90% of people to agree on anything.
Mimi Locke:Yeah, I mean they've signed up for the class. It's seven modules, and so you know they've definitely become comfortable with learning about these things and some of them have some prior knowledge as well.
Steve Davenport:I mean, when you look back at your career and your life with finance and trying to help these women, there's satisfactions and there's successes and there's challenges. I mean, what would you say to a young Mimi who was starting out, you know, in order to help make her life improved in terms of financial wellness? Is there anything you'd write on the? You know.
Mimi Locke:Well, I think financial education is that. That's the you know, that's the basic thing that one needs is the education about finance and how to, and just starting off with your own life, with budgeting and saving and spending, and what percentages you want to allocate to those areas.
Steve Davenport:Do you feel like the people that you're working with are looking at you and saying I want to be like is, is it? Is it an american aspirational thing for more money, or do you think it's more of we need to do this just to be? You know, just like you spend your time on things you think are productive, we should spend our you know, our casual time or our personal time doing things that are also going to help our person, uh, personhood. So how, how do you, how do you look at people and say I, I've made a difference here. Um, because you can see that they like I find that there's an energy in people's eyes when it clicks and they go. This is how you know what I mean, whether it's silent.
Steve Davenport:You know taking money out of your paycheck and automatically automatic investment in 401ks. I think you're the best thing you can do. Automated payments of your utility bills and things. Only thing the utility bills do is hurt your credit rating because you miss a payment because of some reason you didn't have a stamp. Or I remember, you know, getting pneumonia one time, right when I was due to pay off a couch that I got two years interest free and then I didn't get the interest free, and it's just. I guess, how do you um, do you guys measure success, or how do we measure success in this space?
Mimi Locke:Well, I would say, when the light you know, sort of like when the light bulb goes off in someone's head, about like now, I see why this is beneficial. It's going to be something personal that's happened to them and it might be at work. It might be something at work where they've made a difference, or maybe it's in their community or their family where they've seen something positive happen that they care about. With regard to the personal finance situation, I completely agree with you about the automization of you know we have that now you can do pretty much everything automatically, with saving and sending money automatically without even having to make the decision to do it over to an investment account from your checking account, and the importance of saving, of taking advantage of your corporate retirement plans and all that. So if you're asking me like how do I measure?
Steve Davenport:Do you think if you listed 10 items that you just talked about, the woman before the class would be doing two or three of them and the woman after the class will be doing five or six of them. I mean, do you think that if we had more ability to transmit information and I was trusted because that's the thing, like you're, you're doing this in a very trusted space where women trust each other and they want to support each other, and it's a very safe, but the average person trying to figure out how to go forward, I guess, is there other things that the investor better webpage that might help people even if they can't take this class, or yes, there, the the website is full of resources about about values, aligned investing of all all types.
Mimi Locke:They have replays of video, you know, video replays of speakers that specialize in different areas, you know so. So the website is pretty rich actually where you can get a lot of help, but you know you can also. You can get a lot of help, but you know you can also if you're really into, like, trying to figure stuff out. There's a lot of other websites too. I mean, if you do, you ever go on Investopedia and you just type something on in the search bar and it's not just about, like, financial statements, you know, it's anything that has to do with investments. It's extremely broad and Investopedia is your friend, I think, and then you know there's definitely source those things.
Mimi Locke:And if, if someone has a brokerage account, an investment account with one of the major houses, one of the major companies, their websites are really rich with information. Like you could look at retirement planning, look at college planning, you can look at. You know they even have things about social security. They have every topic covered and you can just read about it on those websites. I don't even think you really even have to have an account. I think it's just out there as a resource.
Steve Davenport:Nice. So I'm going to wrap up. I think it's great what you're doing and how you're helping in your community and you're helping the people you want with this woman's group, and I want to remind people that to sign up for Mimi's class, the deadline is August 24th, so that's coming up and the class starts in September and we're going to put the class link into our notes so it'll be in the background. Information on the podcast and Clem, if you want to have anything to wrap up, and then I'll let Mimi have the last.
Clem Miller:I was just going to ask Mimi, what? What's the website where they can look at?
Mimi Locke:what's the website where they can look at? It's investforbetterorg and that talks about the course and it talks about all their other resources as well. I think I gave Stephen the link for the sign up. If not, I can send that to him, but the company, the nonprofit, is investforbetterorg.
Clem Miller:Okay, I just wanted to make sure people had that if they're listening and aren't able to click yeah, thank you.
Clem Miller:Thank you. So this was a good discussion. I think that you're doing a great thing, great service for women. You're doing a great thing, great service for women. I think that it's really important for you know, for people to get a not just women, but for people in general to understand the ins and outs of investing for purpose, to borrow your lingo, and I know a lot of us want to do that but really don't know how to do that, or don't know how to do that without you know, without a fear of giving up gains.
Clem Miller:It may not, you know, the track record may be that you know there's no impact right on returns, but I think there's a fear out there that it does have an impact on returns, and so I think that's a fear that I'm sure you address in the class. So I wish you a lot of luck, uh, with this, uh next, uh, you know, next session, and hope you get a lot of uh, a lot of participation and uh, I think Steve and I would really love to have you back uh, maybe after you have this next session, and then you can tell us how you uh, how you made out.
Mimi Locke:Okay, well, I would love to Thank you Okay.
Steve Davenport:All would love to Thank you. Okay, All right, everybody. I think this has been a great discussion and I really want to emphasize the fact that you know Mimi and others are out there trying to make a difference every day in people's lives, and I think that's great to pay it forward. And I encourage anyone who has similar stories that you know we'd like to share, because at Skeptic's Guide, we're trying to help improve the financial IQ of investors and in doing so, I think it makes all the boats rise. I don't think it's a winner or loser situation. I think it's a win-win. So, everybody, thanks for listening and we appreciate your support, and please like and share this podcast wherever you get it, and we appreciate you all. Thanks, everyone.
Mimi Locke:Thank you.
Steve Davenport:Bye.
